I never considered how payment rendered consent impossible. That was an important point to articulate. In economic terms, I also think the “demand” for prostitution will always outpace the “supply”—and where it’s been legalized, where market demand is unleashed, the supply can only be met with trafficking. It seems to inherently feed another illegal and immoral market. As far as the language used to describe the women, maybe “sex worker” imparts more dignity than “prostitute”? Maybe not. How can we talk about women who have sold or been sold into sex in a way that honors their dignity and personhood?
I go back and forth on this because I've read recent literature + opinion pieces that argue against the phrase "Sex Work" or "sex worker", saying it sanitizes the practice. I found it convincing but I could be convinced either way.
"Real relationships aren’t needs-based. Real relationships do not exist for you to get something out of them. Real relationships that foster connection and growth are not paid for."
I feel like this is actually a really profound and counter-cultural message. Our culture has been pretty quietly but consistently insistent that relationships should give you something - and if they don't, you should shut them down. I've struggled with this mentality in my own marriage and I see it as a huge contributing factor to people chosing not to have children - as it's pretty obvious it's a one sided relationship. The quest to "get my needs met" has become the holy grail of modern society, so it makes sense that ethics are getting swept aside when they get in the way of that ideal. It also perfectly correlates with a turning away from a loving God (who provides all things) because now we are each responsible for securing our own needs - which is a terrifying mindset.
How do we (because it's our responsibility) convince girls that they have more to offer society than their bodies? This isn't to deny that our bodies are absolutely beautiful. I just get so frustrated when this topic comes up. Women are still are still trying to compete in the men's world playing by the rules men created, defined, refined, and embedded in our society. There. I said it outloud. The more this continues to happen, the more miserable our (both men's and women's) lives will continue to be. It's time for some new rules created by women who truly understand the feminine genius. Rules that take into consideration all the good, brilliant, positive contributions women provide society. Sure. It's a stretch and probably won't solve the problem today but your questions focus on how to solve the problem using today's rules. I say CHANGE THE RULES. As for thr West Wing question, I'm team Ainsley.
I agree that fighting for women's dignity and worth in a system created for Men is a losing battle. I usually consider this on the topic of work and family life, but I'm curious how you see this impacting the issue of prostitution. Can you give some examples of cultural/social rules that need to change? Thinking outside social norms is hard, so I'd love to hear your thoughts!
I'm skeptical that teaching girls is the way to solve this issue. There will always be vulnerable women - and when people are vulnerable (like literally not able to secure basic needs) they will go to desperate measures to survive. Asking desperate women to make good choices is putting the burden on the wrong side to me. I think if we shift to holding the men (who hold the power in these dynamics) accountable, it could eliminate prostitution as a desperate option for survival.
As a GenX growing up in a very tumultuous time (sexual revolution/women entering professions and trades that were considered "for men only"/male-only schools becoming coed, etc.) the rules were clear. Outperform at work/school/gym or whatever environment to be considered successful. Women's environment was considered the home. I am the oldest of 4 and the only daughter. I am the mom of 3 adult sons. I questioned, and continue to question, everything. However, I saw my 30+ year old neighbor, a mom, become accepted into the first class of the Philadelphia Police Academy that accepted women. Her marriage didn't survive. I noticed. I questioned my parish priest incessantly about why girls couldn't serve on the altar. I served as the only girl as a paper carrier and was bullied unmercily. I am a first generation college graduate entering a predominantly male profession where 80+ hour weeks during busy season was considered normal. I now own a business in a niche trade that is predominantly male. I am a professional skeptic and wonder why the measurements of success haven't changed? As a boy Mom, I want my boys to understand how to partner with their spouses to reach success not expect their spouses to make certain choices because of societal expectations. I want to figure out how to operate my business to be successful AND be supportive of all of my employees. However, the current rules seem to benefit either one or the other. There are no mutual options. It's unacceptable and would like to see this change.
Connecting the current topic of this newsletter, for the women who are choosing this line of "work," if the rules of success changed and more opportunities were provided both men and women to attain success, determined by them together, and this success was accepted by society, could we potentially see a decrease for a need to do this work, presuming women truly don't want to engage in sex work? I don't know. I'm constantly questioning and wondering. It happens more frequently when Claire shares her newsletters. It's been a great brain workout
What are your thoughts about OnlyFans? Obviously it’s a form of prostitution. But because it takes place virtually, people could argue that the risk of rape, STI, etc are lowered and women still get to make a killer amount of money.
I never considered how payment rendered consent impossible. That was an important point to articulate. In economic terms, I also think the “demand” for prostitution will always outpace the “supply”—and where it’s been legalized, where market demand is unleashed, the supply can only be met with trafficking. It seems to inherently feed another illegal and immoral market. As far as the language used to describe the women, maybe “sex worker” imparts more dignity than “prostitute”? Maybe not. How can we talk about women who have sold or been sold into sex in a way that honors their dignity and personhood?
I go back and forth on this because I've read recent literature + opinion pieces that argue against the phrase "Sex Work" or "sex worker", saying it sanitizes the practice. I found it convincing but I could be convinced either way.
"Real relationships aren’t needs-based. Real relationships do not exist for you to get something out of them. Real relationships that foster connection and growth are not paid for."
I feel like this is actually a really profound and counter-cultural message. Our culture has been pretty quietly but consistently insistent that relationships should give you something - and if they don't, you should shut them down. I've struggled with this mentality in my own marriage and I see it as a huge contributing factor to people chosing not to have children - as it's pretty obvious it's a one sided relationship. The quest to "get my needs met" has become the holy grail of modern society, so it makes sense that ethics are getting swept aside when they get in the way of that ideal. It also perfectly correlates with a turning away from a loving God (who provides all things) because now we are each responsible for securing our own needs - which is a terrifying mindset.
As for me, I'm team CJ.
How do we (because it's our responsibility) convince girls that they have more to offer society than their bodies? This isn't to deny that our bodies are absolutely beautiful. I just get so frustrated when this topic comes up. Women are still are still trying to compete in the men's world playing by the rules men created, defined, refined, and embedded in our society. There. I said it outloud. The more this continues to happen, the more miserable our (both men's and women's) lives will continue to be. It's time for some new rules created by women who truly understand the feminine genius. Rules that take into consideration all the good, brilliant, positive contributions women provide society. Sure. It's a stretch and probably won't solve the problem today but your questions focus on how to solve the problem using today's rules. I say CHANGE THE RULES. As for thr West Wing question, I'm team Ainsley.
I agree that fighting for women's dignity and worth in a system created for Men is a losing battle. I usually consider this on the topic of work and family life, but I'm curious how you see this impacting the issue of prostitution. Can you give some examples of cultural/social rules that need to change? Thinking outside social norms is hard, so I'd love to hear your thoughts!
I'm skeptical that teaching girls is the way to solve this issue. There will always be vulnerable women - and when people are vulnerable (like literally not able to secure basic needs) they will go to desperate measures to survive. Asking desperate women to make good choices is putting the burden on the wrong side to me. I think if we shift to holding the men (who hold the power in these dynamics) accountable, it could eliminate prostitution as a desperate option for survival.
As a GenX growing up in a very tumultuous time (sexual revolution/women entering professions and trades that were considered "for men only"/male-only schools becoming coed, etc.) the rules were clear. Outperform at work/school/gym or whatever environment to be considered successful. Women's environment was considered the home. I am the oldest of 4 and the only daughter. I am the mom of 3 adult sons. I questioned, and continue to question, everything. However, I saw my 30+ year old neighbor, a mom, become accepted into the first class of the Philadelphia Police Academy that accepted women. Her marriage didn't survive. I noticed. I questioned my parish priest incessantly about why girls couldn't serve on the altar. I served as the only girl as a paper carrier and was bullied unmercily. I am a first generation college graduate entering a predominantly male profession where 80+ hour weeks during busy season was considered normal. I now own a business in a niche trade that is predominantly male. I am a professional skeptic and wonder why the measurements of success haven't changed? As a boy Mom, I want my boys to understand how to partner with their spouses to reach success not expect their spouses to make certain choices because of societal expectations. I want to figure out how to operate my business to be successful AND be supportive of all of my employees. However, the current rules seem to benefit either one or the other. There are no mutual options. It's unacceptable and would like to see this change.
Connecting the current topic of this newsletter, for the women who are choosing this line of "work," if the rules of success changed and more opportunities were provided both men and women to attain success, determined by them together, and this success was accepted by society, could we potentially see a decrease for a need to do this work, presuming women truly don't want to engage in sex work? I don't know. I'm constantly questioning and wondering. It happens more frequently when Claire shares her newsletters. It's been a great brain workout
What are your thoughts about OnlyFans? Obviously it’s a form of prostitution. But because it takes place virtually, people could argue that the risk of rape, STI, etc are lowered and women still get to make a killer amount of money.